Actually, according to the email I got they ENCOURAGED discussing it with colleagues and specifically on the FORUMS! Just said to keep it out of the media.
well, since it is an AMX product, and this is the AMX forum, i guess we can discuss it here right?
The TPCONTROL folks have been testing with CineTouch for the last 3 weeks or so. I opened a server here in California and they've been working it remotely, adjusting compatibility. While I won't get my own hands on it any sooner than anyone else, they've shared some screenshots as they had questions and spotted issues. They have been using the panel project we use for the AMX 430 panel, as it is the closest to the iPhone. I have to say that the results are striking in that they are now indistinguishable from the native panel in rendering.
We've been in daily communication and they've been working with CineTouch a lot, as it is EXTREMELY demanding of panel operations. All page changes and buttons are rendered from data; all buttons use dynamic coloration (chameleon buttons); dynamic images are used for cover art and weather, traffic cams, video streams; all manner of borders, fills, transparency, level controls, and dynamic text are used throughout. When a panel comes online, 903 commands are issued to updated it to the current display. And, after some significant discoveries and revisions, from the pictures and reports, it now is as close to flawless in rendering as I can imagine. Literally everything appears to work including old G3 style commands that a G4 panel still responds to. They tell me sounds all work, and navigation is about as fast (or faster) than a real panel. Even from 5,000 miles away.
I'm hugely excited about this, and it's been hard reading all the conjecture that it was vapor for all these weeks, unable to comment. I've asked what I can say now, and this posting meets the requirements they asked of me. They encouraged me to post here.
From what I infer from conversations with AMX and with others, the inital introduction was planned without consultation with AMX... and the delay was caused when AMX pointed out that hacking AMX tools in a third party product was NOT legal and could NOT occur without agreements. The time since then has been obviously filled with negotiation, as well as a chance to improve the product with the actual HELP of AMX. From all indications, it will NOT be an AMX PRODUCT, not sold by AMX, but rather endorsed by AMX as an approved used of some AMX technology... apparently with some oversight and approval process involving AMX in both product and marketing. Hence the use of the AMX logo, the appearance of the web site matching AMX, etc. AMX obviously wants the product to be all it can be - if it is going to exist at all, it should be as close to perfect as possible. And from what I've seen so far, it will be all that.
I can't share screenshots, at least now. I know TPCONTROL plans to start the prerelease to testers within days, and barring lots of bug discoveries, actual full release within weeks.
Those who applied for the beta and were turned down should not take it personally. It looks like they had a flood of requests and just had to say ENOUGH at some point.
A bit more patience... a big payoff is coming. Take a look at device 10010 logged into our Netlinx... all the way from London to San Jose...
John Nagy
CineTouch http://cinetouch.com
Just got the app. All I can say is WOW.... Just WOW... Extremely well put together app. I can't believe how close this thing comes to an AMX panel. Found a small bug that needs to be confirmed so far but nothing major. Beautiful application.
Just got the app. All I can say is WOW.... Just WOW... Extremely well put together app. I can't believe how close this thing comes to an AMX panel. Found a small bug that needs to be confirmed so far but nothing major. Beautiful application.
So far, my impression is that the product has great potential. I have not been as fortunate as some in being able to just start using an existing file without issues, but I am working with TPC on fixing the issues. I will let you know how this goes.
Here are a few good points at the moment:
- a FULL panel transfer takes about 10-15 seconds (normally) where as it normally takes 5-10 minutes using TPD4. There is more time required for the iPod to process the file, but my computer is free and the total time is around 3-5 minutes. (These times are estimates based on feeling and could be WAY off... I will use a stop watch at some point to verify)
- The showing/hiding of popups is very smooth. Processing appears snappy and communication with the processor is the same speed as AMX touch panels.
Jeff
P.S.
I will post more info on the issues as I determine more information about them. One big one would be a $799 price tag To elaborate more on this, I see us using this as a way to get a foot in the door. We WILL always have at least 1 AMX touch panel in every job that has touch panels, but if this app is reasonably priced, we can generate a quote with a much lower initial cost using mainly iPods/iPads. If the client is happy using the iPod/Pad as a main touch panel, that will be the end, but I see the eventual upgrade of some locations to actual AMX touch panels. Once the new/cool factor wears off, and the focus is on use, I think the AMX offerings do have value. (If the value is worthy of the price difference is still to be determined )
How about a hint on where to find much more than a hint? I have perused their website and I did a search on the iTunes Store, but did not see anything about pricing. If it really is $799 per license, I may not be as willing to help with development as this price makes the product much less interesting to us.
How about a hint on where to find much more than a hint? I have perused their website and I did a search on the iTunes Store, but did not see anything about pricing. If it really is $799 per license, I may not be as willing to help with development as this price makes the product much less interesting to us.
Seriously?
I was one of those nay-sayers in the beginning, but it's starting to rub off on me. Here's how we see it.
If the $799 guess is correct - it's still not bad. iPad (~$500) + Application (~$800) = total wireless 10" solution (~$1,300.) Someone please remind what an MVP-8400 retails for? Let's say the total iPad solution is $2k - still, much less than an 8400 retail. Now let's compare "features": Can the 8400 surf the web? Check your email? Stream videos? Play music? I think not.
So - let's recap: MVP-8400 Retail: ~$5,000; Wireless 10" iPad integrated with AMX: ~$1,300. Now, I'm not a numbers guy or anything, but I'm pretty sure the AMX iPad solution is a better deal. This is a drop in the bucket on a whole AMX featured house.
I just asked about the reported price, and got permission to state the following:
"A forgotten link in the BETA TP CONTROL apps pointed to an obsolete page at the original TPCONTROL website. A price was printed on that page, which was preliminary and not intended to be public. It wasn't final then, and is less so now. It is not to be taken as final as pricing is still under review within the company."
The target page has been since removed.
Pricing is not yet decided. I would bet that the TPCONTROL folks note the discussion here as informative.
I just asked about the reported price, and got permission to state the following:
"A forgotten link in the BETA TP CONTROL apps pointed to an obsolete page at the original TPCONTROL website. A price was printed on that page, which was preliminary and not intended to be public. It wasn't final then, and is less so now. It is not to be taken as final as pricing is still under review within the company."
The target page has been since removed.
Pricing is not yet decided. I would bet that the TPCONTROL folks note the discussion here as informative.
John Nagy
CineTouch
Quck!!! everyone edit their posts from saying $799.00 or $699.00 to $79.00 or $69.00...
If the $799 guess is correct - it's still not bad. iPad (~$500) + Application (~$800) = total wireless 10" solution (~$1,300.) Someone please remind what an MVP-8400 retails for? Let's say the total iPad solution is $2k - still, much less than an 8400 retail. Now let's compare "features": Can the 8400 surf the web? Check your email? Stream videos? Play music? I think not.
So - let's recap: MVP-8400 Retail: ~$5,000; Wireless 10" iPad integrated with AMX: ~$1,300. Now, I'm not a numbers guy or anything, but I'm pretty sure the AMX iPad solution is a better deal. This is a drop in the bucket on a whole AMX featured house.
Well, there is already competition that is offering the same thing for $199.00. Granted, they are not AMX APP, so there is a possible value there.
Now, I have the iPod in my hand and it is definitely not a 5200 in some regards. In others it is better. I don't want to pass judgment right now as I understand that it is in development, but I really do feel it to be a secondary control option. There are some people that would be willing to accept the differences when comparing the prices, but at the end of the day, I would compare the iPod app more to an R4 than an 8400. The iPad might be a different story, but that isn't available yet.
The other thing is that I am hoping that AMX is going to adjust their pricing structure soon or at least release a new touch panel that is more inline with current pricing.
The real draw with the TPC app for me was an option that was akin to a candy bar at the checkout register. Something that a client doesn't even think about when you ask if they want it... they just want it and it is cheap enough to not have to worry about it.
One other thing to consider... on an 8400, the dealer is making a percentage that deals with the dealers cost to integrate. On an iPod/Pad, the dealer gets nothing from the hardware sale. The dealer also doesn't get a cut from the App sale as that is through iTunes. So, from a dealer perspective, it might be better to just sell an 8400 or 5200 at cost and be closer to the same price and have the complete control and support behind the product.
Jeff
P.S.
I'm not looking for the App to be 9.99 to me, the sweet spot at this point is somewhere around $249.00.
I want TPCONTROL to be perfect, and it will be worth a lot if it is.
BUT don't forget that for $24, iTeleport (formerly JADUU VNC) is a stable, supported VNC based solution that makes an iPhone into an extension of any touch panel. It renders perfectly, has no bugs, 100% compatible with everything, and cheap. On a good network, nearly as fast as you'd like it to be. As an adjunct to a system, as close to the candy bar as you will find.... it is NOT a native solution, it does not have sound, it is s l o w when you are on the phone connection. But it is a great value at a low price.
People need to stop comparing to AMX panels. AMX panels cost too much. Things change, technology moves on. Good luck telling people they need an $800 license for their $200 phone.
There are a lot of progressive looking companies out there, they are the ones with native apps out already on the iPad. The ones who don't put out silly press releases on how they work just fine with Apple, when, well, they don't.
I get that a lot of people on here have been selling $200k automation systems without problems and what is another $800 - and if that is the only area AMX wants to play in, they are doing a fine job.
]I get that a lot of people on here have been selling $200k automation systems without problems and what is another $800 - and if that is the only area AMX wants to play in, they are doing a fine job.
I'll be honest with you: the $10K-$20K A/V jobs where $800-$1,300 does matter are probably dried up just like the dealers who did them. Those people at the moment are not spending their valuable money on non-essential items when building a home. Now - the $50-75K+ jobs, yes - I'd assume an $800-1,300 item is a drop in a bucket when you're building a $1M+ house, especially when they do see the value of a product like this.
Another thing, most clients will already have an iPad, or an iPhone - so I *guess* the price of that shouldn't matter. They'll have it already, so the only thing in discussion should be the app. The client might not like the price, but I'd place my money on them complaining for a bit, but going for it in the end.
Sure, you probably won't be able to make much (if anything) from this - so be it, especially if as others have pointed out, it got you the client in the first place. I guess I don't think much about it since most (if not all) of our clients who are buying AMX could care less about the total price - they just want the "things."
On an iPod/Pad, the dealer gets nothing from the hardware sale. The dealer also doesn't get a cut from the App sale as that is through iTunes.
I don't think that is how it is going to work. I would imagine that this is going to be sold only through AMX to dealers on TPCs behalf. The app will be free and you'll need to get the licence through a dealer. Also, I have no problem reselling an iPad. Most times a client doesn't want to buy some of the components themselves. They are buying a complete solution. I also think it would be wise for AMX to come out with some cool accesories for the ipad like docks and such.
I don't think that is how it is going to work. I would imagine that this is going to be sold only through AMX to dealers on TPCs behalf. The app will be free and you'll need to get the licence through a dealer. Also, I have no problem reselling an iPad. Most times a client doesn't want to buy some of the components themselves. They are buying a complete solution. I also think it would be wise for AMX to come out with some cool accesories for the ipad like docks and such.
No and no. AMX shouldn't come out with docks or other accesoires for the iPod/iPad.
They should continue to focus on developing new touchpanels and other related hardware.
What they could do is this: With every touchpanel you sell, you get a free TPControl license as a backup solution.
Comments
well, since it is an AMX product, and this is the AMX forum, i guess we can discuss it here right?
I don't think Wolf Blitzer cares about it anyway.
The TPCONTROL folks have been testing with CineTouch for the last 3 weeks or so. I opened a server here in California and they've been working it remotely, adjusting compatibility. While I won't get my own hands on it any sooner than anyone else, they've shared some screenshots as they had questions and spotted issues. They have been using the panel project we use for the AMX 430 panel, as it is the closest to the iPhone. I have to say that the results are striking in that they are now indistinguishable from the native panel in rendering.
We've been in daily communication and they've been working with CineTouch a lot, as it is EXTREMELY demanding of panel operations. All page changes and buttons are rendered from data; all buttons use dynamic coloration (chameleon buttons); dynamic images are used for cover art and weather, traffic cams, video streams; all manner of borders, fills, transparency, level controls, and dynamic text are used throughout. When a panel comes online, 903 commands are issued to updated it to the current display. And, after some significant discoveries and revisions, from the pictures and reports, it now is as close to flawless in rendering as I can imagine. Literally everything appears to work including old G3 style commands that a G4 panel still responds to. They tell me sounds all work, and navigation is about as fast (or faster) than a real panel. Even from 5,000 miles away.
I'm hugely excited about this, and it's been hard reading all the conjecture that it was vapor for all these weeks, unable to comment. I've asked what I can say now, and this posting meets the requirements they asked of me. They encouraged me to post here.
From what I infer from conversations with AMX and with others, the inital introduction was planned without consultation with AMX... and the delay was caused when AMX pointed out that hacking AMX tools in a third party product was NOT legal and could NOT occur without agreements. The time since then has been obviously filled with negotiation, as well as a chance to improve the product with the actual HELP of AMX. From all indications, it will NOT be an AMX PRODUCT, not sold by AMX, but rather endorsed by AMX as an approved used of some AMX technology... apparently with some oversight and approval process involving AMX in both product and marketing. Hence the use of the AMX logo, the appearance of the web site matching AMX, etc. AMX obviously wants the product to be all it can be - if it is going to exist at all, it should be as close to perfect as possible. And from what I've seen so far, it will be all that.
I can't share screenshots, at least now. I know TPCONTROL plans to start the prerelease to testers within days, and barring lots of bug discoveries, actual full release within weeks.
Those who applied for the beta and were turned down should not take it personally. It looks like they had a flood of requests and just had to say ENOUGH at some point.
A bit more patience... a big payoff is coming. Take a look at device 10010 logged into our Netlinx... all the way from London to San Jose...
John Nagy
CineTouch
http://cinetouch.com
Seeing your screenshot is very exciting. An iPhone showing up as a device!! Thanks for sharing.
I'm looking forward to testing as well.
*Cough*ScreenShots*Cough*
What's the expected 'hit the streets' date for all of us unwashed masses?
Can you fellows share the progress? I can?t wait for the release.
Thank you.
iPad == UPPER_STRING(iPod)
Here are a few good points at the moment:
- a FULL panel transfer takes about 10-15 seconds (normally) where as it normally takes 5-10 minutes using TPD4. There is more time required for the iPod to process the file, but my computer is free and the total time is around 3-5 minutes. (These times are estimates based on feeling and could be WAY off... I will use a stop watch at some point to verify)
- The showing/hiding of popups is very smooth. Processing appears snappy and communication with the processor is the same speed as AMX touch panels.
Jeff
P.S.
I will post more info on the issues as I determine more information about them. One big one would be a $799 price tag
There's much more than a hint...
Paul
How about a hint on where to find much more than a hint? I have perused their website and I did a search on the iTunes Store, but did not see anything about pricing. If it really is $799 per license, I may not be as willing to help with development as this price makes the product much less interesting to us.
Jeff
I was one of those nay-sayers in the beginning, but it's starting to rub off on me. Here's how we see it.
If the $799 guess is correct - it's still not bad. iPad (~$500) + Application (~$800) = total wireless 10" solution (~$1,300.) Someone please remind what an MVP-8400 retails for? Let's say the total iPad solution is $2k - still, much less than an 8400 retail. Now let's compare "features": Can the 8400 surf the web? Check your email? Stream videos? Play music? I think not.
So - let's recap: MVP-8400 Retail: ~$5,000; Wireless 10" iPad integrated with AMX: ~$1,300. Now, I'm not a numbers guy or anything, but I'm pretty sure the AMX iPad solution is a better deal. This is a drop in the bucket on a whole AMX featured house.
I just asked about the reported price, and got permission to state the following:
"A forgotten link in the BETA TP CONTROL apps pointed to an obsolete page at the original TPCONTROL website. A price was printed on that page, which was preliminary and not intended to be public. It wasn't final then, and is less so now. It is not to be taken as final as pricing is still under review within the company."
The target page has been since removed.
Pricing is not yet decided. I would bet that the TPCONTROL folks note the discussion here as informative.
John Nagy
CineTouch
Quck!!! everyone edit their posts from saying $799.00 or $699.00 to $79.00 or $69.00...
shhhhhhh....
Cool, I can still win the pool!
Paul
Well, there is already competition that is offering the same thing for $199.00. Granted, they are not AMX APP, so there is a possible value there.
Now, I have the iPod in my hand and it is definitely not a 5200 in some regards. In others it is better. I don't want to pass judgment right now as I understand that it is in development, but I really do feel it to be a secondary control option. There are some people that would be willing to accept the differences when comparing the prices, but at the end of the day, I would compare the iPod app more to an R4 than an 8400. The iPad might be a different story, but that isn't available yet.
The other thing is that I am hoping that AMX is going to adjust their pricing structure soon or at least release a new touch panel that is more inline with current pricing.
The real draw with the TPC app for me was an option that was akin to a candy bar at the checkout register. Something that a client doesn't even think about when you ask if they want it... they just want it and it is cheap enough to not have to worry about it.
One other thing to consider... on an 8400, the dealer is making a percentage that deals with the dealers cost to integrate. On an iPod/Pad, the dealer gets nothing from the hardware sale. The dealer also doesn't get a cut from the App sale as that is through iTunes. So, from a dealer perspective, it might be better to just sell an 8400 or 5200 at cost and be closer to the same price and have the complete control and support behind the product.
Jeff
P.S.
I'm not looking for the App to be 9.99
I want TPCONTROL to be perfect, and it will be worth a lot if it is.
BUT don't forget that for $24, iTeleport (formerly JADUU VNC) is a stable, supported VNC based solution that makes an iPhone into an extension of any touch panel. It renders perfectly, has no bugs, 100% compatible with everything, and cheap. On a good network, nearly as fast as you'd like it to be. As an adjunct to a system, as close to the candy bar as you will find.... it is NOT a native solution, it does not have sound, it is s l o w when you are on the phone connection. But it is a great value at a low price.
John Nagy
There are a lot of progressive looking companies out there, they are the ones with native apps out already on the iPad. The ones who don't put out silly press releases on how they work just fine with Apple, when, well, they don't.
I get that a lot of people on here have been selling $200k automation systems without problems and what is another $800 - and if that is the only area AMX wants to play in, they are doing a fine job.
(yeah, "someone" likes to be disruptive)
I'll be honest with you: the $10K-$20K A/V jobs where $800-$1,300 does matter are probably dried up just like the dealers who did them. Those people at the moment are not spending their valuable money on non-essential items when building a home. Now - the $50-75K+ jobs, yes - I'd assume an $800-1,300 item is a drop in a bucket when you're building a $1M+ house, especially when they do see the value of a product like this.
Another thing, most clients will already have an iPad, or an iPhone - so I *guess* the price of that shouldn't matter. They'll have it already, so the only thing in discussion should be the app. The client might not like the price, but I'd place my money on them complaining for a bit, but going for it in the end.
Sure, you probably won't be able to make much (if anything) from this - so be it, especially if as others have pointed out, it got you the client in the first place. I guess I don't think much about it since most (if not all) of our clients who are buying AMX could care less about the total price - they just want the "things."
I don't think that is how it is going to work. I would imagine that this is going to be sold only through AMX to dealers on TPCs behalf. The app will be free and you'll need to get the licence through a dealer. Also, I have no problem reselling an iPad. Most times a client doesn't want to buy some of the components themselves. They are buying a complete solution. I also think it would be wise for AMX to come out with some cool accesories for the ipad like docks and such.
No and no. AMX shouldn't come out with docks or other accesoires for the iPod/iPad.
They should continue to focus on developing new touchpanels and other related hardware.
What they could do is this: With every touchpanel you sell, you get a free TPControl license as a backup solution.