Do you happen to know what that cut is? Just curious how much you save when you handle the money yourself. Does Apple then require some sort of transaction report from the app owner to prove the sales numbers?
...
I do want to know how Apple works (since that should be public knowledge) but as far as the rest goes let whoever charge whatever they want.
I'm told that sales through the iStore are charged 30% of the take to Apple.
Sales by other means that leverage the iStore will be via private contracts that could vary hugely and never be public knowledge. We know that private contracts can require anything the parties agree to. This can include audit, reports, oversight, or just handshakes. I doubt we'll ever know the details of this deal. Do we need to know? What does Sony pay Dolby to put the logo on their AVR's? Would we gain anything from knowing the accounting process they use?
I have a customer very interested in this product, but he wants it as a means to simplify his system, not necessarily to eliminate touch panels. He has two 8400's in his home now, and plans on adding a 7" in-wall plus a 5200 for his theater ... yet he wants the iPhone app so he can use his phone as a generic "control anything in the house device" without having to get up to find one of the dedicated panels. I don't see this as a panel killer. The thing is, I have never, for the wealthiest client, been able to talk them into a full-blown panel for every room in the house. The closest I came was about 70% coverage with some old CV-12s. The small in-walls just aren't very attractive to some to fill in the gaps, as it were ... but to use your iPhone instead? Well, that makes a lot more sense, at least to my clients. So I expect I'll be working off the model of 2-3 built-in panels, and maybe a fancy wireless for theater rooms, then fill in the control for the rest of the house by roaming from those panels, and using the app for those times the customer doesn't want to have to roam himself to do so.
I have been testing the integration of an iPad with an AMX system using two different approaches and here are my findings so far:
1) AMX NXV-300 plus iTelePort App solution recommend by AMX. Graphics look great since they are not changed. I converted a 7" TP4 file to the 800x480 res of the NXV-300, but control is too slow. In my opinon, not recommended at all to a client or end user.
2) iRidium solution (www.iridiummobile.net/en/products.html). They offer a free App and free license key for AMX integrators for testing. The control is fast and reliable since graphics live on the iPad. The App startup loading can take 15 to 20 seconds depending on the TP4 file size. In my case, I used a big project file and it is taking about 18 secs to load. They have a wizard TP4 conversion application, which does a good job converting the TP4 graphics, but some graphical fonts (AMX, GUIFX) don't convert. So, some graphics tweaking is needed. Make sure you follow all the steps of conversion, key license linking on their Server application before you try loading the iPad.
I am also waiting on the TPControls App, but for those earlier adopters, the iRidium license at $160 is a viable solution that works with minor graphical tweaks. I have a project that the client is demanding a couple of iPads integrated into the system along side 5 other Modero panels and the iRidium solution is the only one I would use right now.
For much faster response with iTeleport, use the 430 resolution (convert your panel to that of the NXD-430 in TPD4). It is 1/4 of data to transfer, so it is 4 times faster in drawing the full screen. It will look the same on the iPhone. iTeleport works fine with ANY AMX panel, you don't need the NXV300 to use it. I prefer to use a 430 as it costs the same as the panel-less 300 but gives you a real panel too, maybe for the rack room or some lesser used area where the iPhone sharing the panel won't bother anyone. The 430 is less buggy today than the 300 too.
Our experience with IRIDIUM was disappointing. Many, many commands we use a lot are not supported and thus it could not be used with our product. The company is in Russia, and the documentation is hard to follow. It has improved across time and probably will continue to do so. If you author touch panels within the supported command set, you may find it very workable.
The TPCONTROL concept is to be as close to 100% like an AMX panel as the platform allows, making the use of their product a simple decision anytime in a project - no need to revise anything. Much of what they added in the the beta period was an amazing amount of compatibility items, including G3 panel commands and even duplication of what I'd call G4 panel bugs, but since they are expected behaviors, TPControl is making it so. Their cooperation as the endorsed product of AMX has afforded them a lot of expertise and inside information to make use of the TPCONTROL as seamless as swapping a 7" AMX panel with a 5200i.
Many, many commands we use a lot are not supported and thus it could not be used with our product.
But that is done to CT, if you wish to use a product from a vendor you have to work with that product, it is CT that doesn't work with iRidium not iRidium not working with CT!
Apple takes a 30% cut on the charges via the app-store. Free Apps require no payment to apple.
What you can't do is build an app that has a third party payment mechanism within the app. You can have a free app that requires a dependence on a service, software or hardware item that is not connected with apple or the app store.
There are many many apps, free and fee based, that require a licensed copy of some software or hardware item. Accounts packages, CCTV monitoring, Cre*stron, B&O etc etc all work using this model. No payments are due to apple under these arrangements.
You guys are pretty sure AMX is going to have an iPad loaded with TPControl on it for InfoComm right? I mean I know it's not "their" software but it would certainly go along with their "Win an iPad (or Smart Car)" promotion. Any of you guys going to be there? I'll look for you. And the iPad...
IMHO (speculation) there's more to this than we know about. Although they say they're partners AMX may have a controlling interest so is it or isn't their product is yet to be seen. To me leaving TPC, a product that will likely play a major role in AMX's future, in the control on another company with which AMX would have a limited influence doesn't make sense. We'll all just have to stay tuned to see how this developes and maybe when a cost for this product is annouced we'll get an insight when we see who we have to pay for it.
i have downloaded the TP Transfer program and you have to get a token dealers get one free for 21 days.
or you can buy one for iPhone for $ or iPad for $ its a bit steep.
I agree that is a bit steep. I have a client using iRidium which is running perfectly well at half the cost.
Also, I can develop the iRidium programs on my own iPod Touch for free using the developer licence, whereas if I want to keep developing TPControl panels after 21 days I have to fork over $ of my own money.
You have to remember that those prices appear to be our cost for the license, so we will have to sell mark it up and sell it for even more than that to make any money on it.
That makes the price even more out of line.
~Edit:
Upon further reading it looks like you need to have TPD4 and iTunes synced to the iPod/iPad/iPhone on the same computer. This could be a big problem as Apple limits the number of sync'd computers to 5 per device. I guess this means we will have to borrow the customers computer and load TPD4 onto it to transfer to the iPod if they have it synced to a number of different computers.
$500 iPad + $ license = a slick 10" wireless AMX controllable touch panel with email, news, video, etc. for only $; a client would be insane to not buy it. Show them how much an 8400 costs and it does . . . umm, none of that?
And why mark it up? Use it as tool to get your foot into the door with the client and upsell. I just don't understand why so many people feel they should be given a product to make gobs and gobs of money off of, as if you're looking for that golden nugget. This is a perfect opportunity for us to be able to step inside a client's house and bringing your own iPad and saying "Here's the proposal, let's go through it, we can make some changes as we move along. Here's the design, yada yada yada. And here's the touch panel we've come up with you." Bam - all on an iPad. Presentation would be awesome in my opinion.
Anyway, these are very reasonable prices in my opinion, and do not think our clients will flinch. If they flinch at $ in a grand scheme of a $90k proposal - something's wrong.
Hmmm, my $399.00 - $599.00 guesstimate was on target but I didn't expect a higher premium for an iPad license. So I guess that's $1,600.00 for a complete iPad solution less mark up on product or license. AMX has no product support liability so for them it's a win, win deal.
I don't disagree that it's a nice solution for $1250.00 cost. HOWEVER, don't the other guys have a solution for $99? $750 vs. $99. Hmm... I'm not a math major but...
I don't disagree that it's a nice solution for $1250.00 cost. HOWEVER, don't the other guys have a solution for $99? $750 vs. $99. Hmm... I'm not a math major but...
I'm sure that's why the powers that be feel these costs are justified. You're basically getting an AMX UI for all practical puposes that programs exactly the same as every AMX TP and uses TPD4 just as any native AMX G4 panel. The only difference is these need to use TP transfer to transfer the files and who knows that may be pulled into TPD4 at some point too.
I was just wondering where this money gets applied. Will it count as an AMX purchase for maintaining delaer cost levels and if not and frankly if it does it will still seriously affect dealers annual sales numbers. Since the majority of annual sales are related to TP's and with this option I can see resi AMX TP sales dropping 50% or more which means those of us that use these can see our annual sales number drop putting some in the dreaded bronze level where products will cost you 20% more then they currently do. Catch 22, damned if you do and damned if you don't. This could be a bad thing for alot of you guys. For me I'm already F'd so it doesn't matter but this will be an interesting thing to watch. I think AMX will fare well either way but some of you may not.
I'm not looking for a goose laying golden eggs, but without us dealers, this piece of software is completely useless. I am going to pitch it to some of our clients and see what their thoughts are before I make any further speculation on the marketability of this pricing.
Selling a license that costs more than the device that it is being used for goes beyond me...
I know they need to make a profit, and don't expect them to sell it for 99$, like the competitor, but why shouldn't I buy an iRidium license? I can even use iRidium on my Windows Tablet PC, TPControl is limited to only the iPod/iPhone...
Anyway, it's a very nice product, and I am pleased with the way the beta has developed so I'm still very interested.
One question, how do you guys think they would handle changing your iPod/iPhone? Will your license be locked to one device? What if my kid drops my iPad and I need a new one?
Selling a license that costs more than the device that it is being used for goes beyond me...
Huh? It is very common to have software far exceed the cost of the hardware it runs on. Surely this isn't difficult to comprehend? The last company I worked for leased software that cost $70,000 a year and ran on a $3000 PC. Pretty soon Windows 7 will cost more than the netbook its running on.
Paul
Huh? It is very common to have software far exceed the cost of the hardware it runs on. Surely this isn't difficult to comprehend? The last company I worked for leased software that cost $70,000 a year and ran on a $3000 PC. Pretty soon Windows 7 will cost more than the netbook its running on.
Paul
Yeah, you are right, silly me
Anyway, it's just the way I feel about this
One question, how do you guys think they would handle changing your iPod/iPhone? Will your license be locked to one device? What if my kid drops my iPad and I need a new one?
/Y
The changing get's handled by apple, not the app seller. It shouldn't be locked to one device, as you can change your device. If your kid drops your iPad spank him (preferably with the broken iPad (doubt it would break but whatever)), and get a new iPad and transfer all your settings etc on it using iTunes.
Back on the iPhone/iPad app. The price is rather steep yes, especially if you consider what it can do and can't do compared to native iPhone/iPad apps.
The changing get's handled by apple, not the app seller. It shouldn't be locked to one device, as you can change your device. If your kid drops your iPad spank him (preferably with the broken iPad (doubt it would break but whatever)), and get a new iPad and transfer all your settings etc on it using iTunes.
Back on the iPhone/iPad app. The price is rather steep yes, especially if you consider what it can do and can't do compared to native iPhone/iPad apps.
wrong, the license you get is "installed" using the TPTransfer app, and is locked to the UDID if your apple device (at least, that's how it was with the beta).
Let's see, staying in business is good for my customers, employees and me.
We make a good margin on touch panels. We will already be making nothing on iPhone/iPads. I can charge for programming but it sure is nice to be able to spread out the profit so you don't end up with 30K in programming/installation on a 90K job. Have you met any wealthy residential integrators lately?
I wonder how much AMX had to do with this pricing. I have a few customers lined up who are interested, in the hope they will take less of a financial hit ... including one customer who was seriously considering walking his existing 8400 from room to room. He can afford more panels, he just doesn't want to spend it. I'm not sure this will provide enough savings for him to buy it. I guess I'll pitch it, and we'll see.
I just don't understand why so many people feel they should be given a product to make gobs and gobs of money off of, as if you're looking for that golden nugget.
And it costs 50% more to license the same app on an iPad vs. an iPhone because....?
What does the app do better on the iPad than the iPhone?
Cha-Ching...the golden nugget.
Comments
Sales by other means that leverage the iStore will be via private contracts that could vary hugely and never be public knowledge. We know that private contracts can require anything the parties agree to. This can include audit, reports, oversight, or just handshakes. I doubt we'll ever know the details of this deal. Do we need to know? What does Sony pay Dolby to put the logo on their AVR's? Would we gain anything from knowing the accounting process they use?
1) AMX NXV-300 plus iTelePort App solution recommend by AMX. Graphics look great since they are not changed. I converted a 7" TP4 file to the 800x480 res of the NXV-300, but control is too slow. In my opinon, not recommended at all to a client or end user.
2) iRidium solution (www.iridiummobile.net/en/products.html). They offer a free App and free license key for AMX integrators for testing. The control is fast and reliable since graphics live on the iPad. The App startup loading can take 15 to 20 seconds depending on the TP4 file size. In my case, I used a big project file and it is taking about 18 secs to load. They have a wizard TP4 conversion application, which does a good job converting the TP4 graphics, but some graphical fonts (AMX, GUIFX) don't convert. So, some graphics tweaking is needed. Make sure you follow all the steps of conversion, key license linking on their Server application before you try loading the iPad.
I am also waiting on the TPControls App, but for those earlier adopters, the iRidium license at $160 is a viable solution that works with minor graphical tweaks. I have a project that the client is demanding a couple of iPads integrated into the system along side 5 other Modero panels and the iRidium solution is the only one I would use right now.
For much faster response with iTeleport, use the 430 resolution (convert your panel to that of the NXD-430 in TPD4). It is 1/4 of data to transfer, so it is 4 times faster in drawing the full screen. It will look the same on the iPhone. iTeleport works fine with ANY AMX panel, you don't need the NXV300 to use it. I prefer to use a 430 as it costs the same as the panel-less 300 but gives you a real panel too, maybe for the rack room or some lesser used area where the iPhone sharing the panel won't bother anyone. The 430 is less buggy today than the 300 too.
Our experience with IRIDIUM was disappointing. Many, many commands we use a lot are not supported and thus it could not be used with our product. The company is in Russia, and the documentation is hard to follow. It has improved across time and probably will continue to do so. If you author touch panels within the supported command set, you may find it very workable.
The TPCONTROL concept is to be as close to 100% like an AMX panel as the platform allows, making the use of their product a simple decision anytime in a project - no need to revise anything. Much of what they added in the the beta period was an amazing amount of compatibility items, including G3 panel commands and even duplication of what I'd call G4 panel bugs, but since they are expected behaviors, TPControl is making it so. Their cooperation as the endorsed product of AMX has afforded them a lot of expertise and inside information to make use of the TPCONTROL as seamless as swapping a 7" AMX panel with a 5200i.
Check it out here:
http://amxforums.com/showthread.php?p=47480
Hope to get some good replies!
/Y
Welcome to the modern world!
There may be a few grammatical errors, but the documentation is not hard to follow and software is remarkably simple to use.
But that is done to CT, if you wish to use a product from a vendor you have to work with that product, it is CT that doesn't work with iRidium not iRidium not working with CT!
Apple takes a 30% cut on the charges via the app-store. Free Apps require no payment to apple.
What you can't do is build an app that has a third party payment mechanism within the app. You can have a free app that requires a dependence on a service, software or hardware item that is not connected with apple or the app store.
There are many many apps, free and fee based, that require a licensed copy of some software or hardware item. Accounts packages, CCTV monitoring, Cre*stron, B&O etc etc all work using this model. No payments are due to apple under these arrangements.
All up and running on the TPControl web site.
i have downloaded the TP Transfer program and you have to get a token dealers get one free for 21 days.
or you can buy one for iPhone for $ or iPad for $ its a bit steep.
I dont think our clients will pay for that.
Also, I can develop the iRidium programs on my own iPod Touch for free using the developer licence, whereas if I want to keep developing TPControl panels after 21 days I have to fork over $ of my own money.
That makes the price even more out of line.
~Edit:
Upon further reading it looks like you need to have TPD4 and iTunes synced to the iPod/iPad/iPhone on the same computer. This could be a big problem as Apple limits the number of sync'd computers to 5 per device. I guess this means we will have to borrow the customers computer and load TPD4 onto it to transfer to the iPod if they have it synced to a number of different computers.
Fun fun.
And why mark it up? Use it as tool to get your foot into the door with the client and upsell. I just don't understand why so many people feel they should be given a product to make gobs and gobs of money off of, as if you're looking for that golden nugget. This is a perfect opportunity for us to be able to step inside a client's house and bringing your own iPad and saying "Here's the proposal, let's go through it, we can make some changes as we move along. Here's the design, yada yada yada. And here's the touch panel we've come up with you." Bam - all on an iPad. Presentation would be awesome in my opinion.
Anyway, these are very reasonable prices in my opinion, and do not think our clients will flinch. If they flinch at $ in a grand scheme of a $90k proposal - something's wrong.
True, but then you get their system.
Paul
I was just wondering where this money gets applied. Will it count as an AMX purchase for maintaining delaer cost levels and if not and frankly if it does it will still seriously affect dealers annual sales numbers. Since the majority of annual sales are related to TP's and with this option I can see resi AMX TP sales dropping 50% or more which means those of us that use these can see our annual sales number drop putting some in the dreaded bronze level where products will cost you 20% more then they currently do. Catch 22, damned if you do and damned if you don't. This could be a bad thing for alot of you guys. For me I'm already F'd so it doesn't matter but this will be an interesting thing to watch. I think AMX will fare well either way but some of you may not.
I'm not looking for a goose laying golden eggs, but without us dealers, this piece of software is completely useless. I am going to pitch it to some of our clients and see what their thoughts are before I make any further speculation on the marketability of this pricing.
Jeff
I know they need to make a profit, and don't expect them to sell it for 99$, like the competitor, but why shouldn't I buy an iRidium license? I can even use iRidium on my Windows Tablet PC, TPControl is limited to only the iPod/iPhone...
Anyway, it's a very nice product, and I am pleased with the way the beta has developed so I'm still very interested.
One question, how do you guys think they would handle changing your iPod/iPhone? Will your license be locked to one device? What if my kid drops my iPad and I need a new one?
/Y
Huh? It is very common to have software far exceed the cost of the hardware it runs on. Surely this isn't difficult to comprehend? The last company I worked for leased software that cost $70,000 a year and ran on a $3000 PC. Pretty soon Windows 7 will cost more than the netbook its running on.
Paul
Yeah, you are right, silly me
Anyway, it's just the way I feel about this
Looks like I might get back into working on that html5 + css interface framework.
The changing get's handled by apple, not the app seller. It shouldn't be locked to one device, as you can change your device. If your kid drops your iPad spank him (preferably with the broken iPad (doubt it would break but whatever)), and get a new iPad and transfer all your settings etc on it using iTunes.
Back on the iPhone/iPad app. The price is rather steep yes, especially if you consider what it can do and can't do compared to native iPhone/iPad apps.
wrong, the license you get is "installed" using the TPTransfer app, and is locked to the UDID if your apple device (at least, that's how it was with the beta).
Let's see, staying in business is good for my customers, employees and me.
We make a good margin on touch panels. We will already be making nothing on iPhone/iPads. I can charge for programming but it sure is nice to be able to spread out the profit so you don't end up with 30K in programming/installation on a 90K job. Have you met any wealthy residential integrators lately?
What does the app do better on the iPad than the iPhone?
Cha-Ching...the golden nugget.